The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

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Scazza69
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The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by Scazza69 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:31 pm

Hi all, I am new to the forum and very pleased to have joined. I wanted to start by canvassing opinion on the new Vanguards Escort RS Mexico model as I know a couple of you have commented in other posts on this subject.

I think Vanguards have being turning out some excellent stuff lately but some of the models are being let down by detailing issues. In the case of the RS Mexico it is the wheels that in my opinion are too big and not the correct RS 4 spoke design that was an option of the car in reality. In fact it came with 13 x 5.5 inch steels a la RS1800. I am actually in an email debate with Corgi/VG about this at the moment as they have told me that althought they agree with me that the wheel size is wrong, on such a small scale it is too small to notice (Really!!??) and hence not financially viable to get the tooling exactly right! My argument back was why then did they get it right with the Mk1 Mexico (correct size steel wheel) and the Ford Capri Mk3 S (correct size and design RS 4 spoke wheel).

They didnt have to re-tool at all!! Jeez if minichamps can get it right and use the same wheel across various models (see RS2000 and RS1800 Rally) then surely VG can, if only to save money and make production more economical. This cannot be that hard to get right, and as we all know the devil is in the detail.

Anyway, to prove a point I bought a Mk1 Mex cop car cheap for its wheels and did the swap and guess what. We have the model they should have given us in the first place!

Let's hope they can get the upcoming (June 2013) Escort Harrier correct. The pre prod shots don't bode well but I have let them know my suggestions

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scalainj
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Re: The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by scalainj » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:59 pm

Honestly, the wheels are a little big but i'm not really bothered. It's a nice model and not a car i know really well so i let it pass. It's less than £20 and looks nice on the shelf.

That aside, if they have the right wheel tooling and size already then it seems a touch daft not to use it.
Andy

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Re: The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by jinx » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:23 pm

scalainj wrote:Honestly, the wheels are a little big but i'm not really bothered. It's a nice model and not a car i know really well so i let it pass. It's less than £20 and looks nice on the shelf.

That aside, if they have the right wheel tooling and size already then it seems a touch daft not to use it.
Andy, the wheel issue is the reason I can't bring myself to buy one - I'm therefore trying to track down a Trofeu. The suggestion to do a wheel swap might well be cheaper!

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scalainj
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Re: The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by scalainj » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:54 pm

Understand that Steve. If it were a Quattro one suspects i would sing a different tune.
Andy

British roads have history. Some were built by the Romans. British road investment being what it is, they have only been re-surfaced a few times since.

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Re: The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by Scazza69 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:46 pm

Here is my modified version, thanks to a donor car that cost me £8.99 (bargain)

I think you will agree, a vast improvement and faithful to the real thing.

The good thing about the Mk1 VG Escort RS2000, Mex and 1300E is that they actually managed to do a great job of reproducing the steel RS wheels. Minichamps have done the best job IMHO with the RS1800 road car but I wasnt about to rip one of those apart. Personally I think the tyres could be a little fatter, but thats something that can be rectified in the future.

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Re: The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by splonker » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:36 pm

Great, looks much better with the RS wheels.
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Galaxy Gaz
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Re: The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by Galaxy Gaz » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:17 am

Even though the Ronal 4 spoke alloys look slightly big on the Vanguards model, imo they look way better than the basic steel wheels that the Mexico came with .

The Vanguards casting looks nicer than the Trofeu version too
:flag_gb: Gary

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Re: The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by Scazza69 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:54 am

Sir Gary wrote:Even though the Ronal 4 spoke alloys look slightly big on the Vanguards model, imo they look way better than the basic steel wheels that the Mexico came with .

The Vanguards casting looks nicer than the Trofeu version too
I understand what you are saying, but my point is VG's have managed with other models to get details like this correct. Liking one style of wheel over another is subjective, but these are supposed to be a true representation of a classic car and out of the many excellent models Vanguards have turned out one could argue this particular model is one of the most significant and hence important to get right. They could have still issued the model with RS alloys as in the Capri below, at least they would have been the right scale and proportion to the model.

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I happen to think the original Mk2 RS Mexico with wide rim steels looks great and is how blue oval intended back in the day, hence me attempting to make one of mine a truer representation of the original.
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scalainj
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Re: The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by scalainj » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:02 am

According to the latest Vanguards Collectors Club magazine (free model with every subscription - each year 8-) ) this model is based on a real club members car as it is now, not when it was original. Perhaps that is the reason behind the over size wheels
Andy

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Re: The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by Scazza69 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:32 pm

scalainj wrote:According to the latest Vanguards Collectors Club magazine (free model with every subscription - each year 8-) ) this model is based on a real club members car as it is now, not when it was original. Perhaps that is the reason behind the over size wheels
Yes, the real car has 13 x 6 Minilites. So not RS wheels at all. But I am sticking with my argument re the accuracy of the original factory spec 8-)

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Re: The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by IFHP » Wed May 18, 2016 12:51 am

Scazza,

I agree with you, as factory correctness is very important to me. Which is why the practice of reproducing actual cars (which may have been modified) is a flawed practice in book. I like your idea about changing out the wheels, I may do that to mine too.

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Re: The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by Galaxy Gaz » Wed May 18, 2016 3:21 am

Scazza69 wrote:I think Vanguards have being turning out some excellent stuff lately but some of the models are being let down by detailing issues. In the case of the RS Mexico it is the wheels that in my opinion are too big and not the correct RS 4 spoke design that was an option of the car in reality. In fact it came with 13 x 5.5 inch steels a la RS1800.
Image

Just re-read your post and felt I need to add to it .

The Mk2 Mexico did come from the factory with 5.5 x 13 inch steel wheels and also with the option of 6x13 Ronal 4 spoke alloys , so whilst the wheels on the Vanguards car are slightly oversize looking on the model , the style of wheel is correct .
The Escort RS 4 spokes and the Capri 4 spokes looked identical in every way apart from one difference . The wheel nuts on all Capri 4 Spoke alloys have a 60 degree tapered washer on them where they bolt up to the wheel face but genuine Escort RS 4 spokes are flat and have a flat washer where they bolt onto the wheel . That is the only way you can tell them apart .

There was a slightly different style RS 4 spoke alloy available in a 5.5 x 13 inch alloy which had flatter and wider spokes and was only available on the Escort RS 2000 Mk1.

Being pedantic here I know , but the wheels you've fitted to your Vanguards Mexico are still incorrect as all Mexicos with steelies should have black centre caps with an RS logo on them . At a guess , It looks like you've used the steelies from a 1300E Mk1 for your wheel swap which have the added trim rings fitted....something no self respecting Mexico owner would ever fit
:flag_gb: Gary

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Re: The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by GBOAC002 » Wed May 18, 2016 4:14 am

Interesting comments but original posts now around 4 years old so I wonder if our subscriber is still around to benefit from latest discussion?

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Re: The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by Jager » Wed May 18, 2016 5:54 am

GBOAC002 wrote:Interesting comments but original posts now around 4 years old so I wonder if our subscriber is still around to benefit from latest discussion?
Unlikely...he last logged on in 2013, so unless he occasionally lurks here without logging on, he may be gone.
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Re: The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by Scazza69 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:39 am

Wow, I am pleased that this subject still is alive and well! I've not been around for a while on this forum. Occasionally lurked :) for info purposes but not logged in. I think I last checked this thread in early 2016 so pleased to see others have since had an opinion and I love it when a subject causes such healthy debate.

Gary hats of to you for actually going off and doing research (for the best part of four years) before coming back with your very detailed and slightly patronising response (below) in 2016. Well done! You could actually have saved yourself all that time by reading my original posts properly….
Galaxy Gaz wrote:
Wed May 18, 2016 3:21 am
Scazza69 wrote:I think Vanguards have being turning out some excellent stuff lately but some of the models are being let down by detailing issues. In the case of the RS Mexico it is the wheels that in my opinion are too big and not the correct RS 4 spoke design that was an option of the car in reality. In fact it came with 13 x 5.5 inch steels a la RS1800.


Just re-read your post and felt I need to add to it .

The Mk2 Mexico did come from the factory with 5.5 x 13 inch steel wheels and also with the option of 6x13 Ronal 4 spoke alloys , so whilst the wheels on the Vanguards car are slightly oversize looking on the model , the style of wheel is correct .
The Escort RS 4 spokes and the Capri 4 spokes looked identical in every way apart from one difference . The wheel nuts on all Capri 4 Spoke alloys have a 60 degree tapered washer on them where they bolt up to the wheel face but genuine Escort RS 4 spokes are flat and have a flat washer where they bolt onto the wheel . That is the only way you can tell them apart .

There was a slightly different style RS 4 spoke alloy available in a 5.5 x 13 inch alloy which had flatter and wider spokes and was only available on the Escort RS 2000 Mk1.

Being pedantic here I know , but the wheels you've fitted to your Vanguards Mexico are still incorrect as all Mexicos with steelies should have black centre caps with an RS logo on them . At a guess , It looks like you've used the steelies from a 1300E Mk1 for your wheel swap which have the added trim rings fitted....something no self respecting Mexico owner would ever fit


However, seeing as detail seems to be the order of the day (and required it appears) in this thread I will explain. Just to recap, my original post from 2012 (I can’t believe it was 5 yrs ago) was written when the first edition and much anticipated release of VG’s Mk2 RS Mexico appeared and there was debate and excitement on various forums about the release of this model. One of the areas of discussion were the wheels, mainly focused on being the wrong size and style.

As stated in my original post(s) I decided to try to improve the look (IMO) of the model with the wheels from a VG MK1 Escort Mexico police car (a car actually fitted with the 5.5 inch RS steel wheels - see pic) as the MK2 RS Mexico was also fitted with this style of wheel as standard equipment. Gary, if you re–read the thread you will note the donor car for these wheels was mentioned and not as in your words “…It looks like you've used the steelies from a 1300E Mk1 for your wheel swap which have the added trim rings fitted....something no self respecting Mexico owner would ever fit.” This in itself causes another interesting debate as the early VG 1300E has the same wheels as the VG Mexico Police car, so perhaps that means that VG got it wrong and their version of the 1300E is actually fitted with 5.5 inch RS steels…? Something no self respecting 1300E owner would ever fit…..

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Gary, I do agree with you. You are being pedantic. I also agree with you re. the black centre caps and wheel nuts fitted to the MK2 RS Mexico. The MK1 cars did indeed have chrome plated metal centre caps and chrome wheel nuts. I wanted to get the MK2 RS Mexico model closer to the original car (in fact if you read my original posts I say closer to a "truer representation") than I felt VG had given us and decided to work with the style of wheel available (and correct as it came off a model intended to have RS steel 5.5s as std equipment) to get it as close as possible. I stated in the original thread that I did not want to break a Minichamps RS1800 (see pic) for the wheels correctly painted with black bits. Admittedly, I could get handy with a small brush and paint these black to make them correct…apologies for not doing that.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/YhTo72]Image


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The other thing to note however is that the...let's call them “flush” (narrow rim) style of four spoke wheel was never available as standard or optional equipment on the MK2 RS Mexico, or the MK2 RS2000 for that matter. The more familar RS 4 spoke style of course was, being standard on the RS2000 and optional on the RS Mexico (see below pic), and later optional on the base model RS2000 that replaced the RS Mexico midway thru 1978.

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Similar styles of a flush (narrow rim) 4 spoke design RS type wheel were available on the Capri RS3100 in the early 70s, and later the Series X range of upgrades for the Fiesta and Cortina and then also on the Fiesta Super Sport to name a few. Just for your benefit Gary because I realise how much you love detail (that's where the devil is right?), I am saying styles (plural), I am not suggesting they were exactly the same casting or brand of wheel. See below.

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For the Escort however (and this was the reason for my original post in 2012), this style of the four spoke wheel was only ever used on publicity shots in 1975 of the MK2 RS2000 (see pre launch Euro pic) and then the publicity shot of the MK2 RS Mexico (see pic) which one could argue would have been correct if VG had been making a replica of this pre production “styling” exercise example…..which they weren’t, but more detail on that in a sec.

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Thus, the flush style of 4 spoke wheel is NOT correct for the production MK2 RS Mexico plus the size/scale of the wheel for the model is still too large anyway. Interestingly, the publicity shot of the MK2 RS Mexico was actually a styling exercise created from a MK2 Escort Sport (note overriders and striped interior) and also the first few RS1800’s were also upgraded MK2 Sports built at Halewood in the UK (according to Ford). Production of all other RS Escorts moved to Saarlouis for the MK2 model. Subsequent RS1800’s started life as RS Mexico’s at Saarlouis before being pulled off the production line and transported back to England where they were upgraded, rebadged and re-engined as RS1800's. With four years of research you will of course already know this Gary.

Finally, I did contact Corgi VG about my opinion and concerns re. the style of wheel they selected for the first edition release of the MK2 RS Mexico (see original thread). Pre production shots of the MK2 Harrier also showed the flush style of 4 spoke wheel which were clearly wrong. The wheel style was actually changed following this debate as I and others had contacted Corgi VG querying this choice and style of wheel design. You will note that both the Harrier and later green MK2 RS Mexico carried the correct (or as correct as VG could get it) style of 4 spoke wheel design when released by Vanguards. I hope this was an example of them listening to their customers.

Anyway, let's see if the RS Mexico wheel debate continues :)
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Re: The RS Mexico Vanguards should have given us.....

Post by LUW » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:31 am

I see necromancers.
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