Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

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Jean B.
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Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Jean B. » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:07 pm

Time to start something new! I've decided to focus on the original main subject of my collection, the French (and European) luxury coupés and convertibles. So I am going to start with a double feature of the Bugatti T57, the last and probably most important production car of that great company. In the early 1930s, the young Jean, son of Ettore, planned to modernise the company. The portfolio of up to six different available chassis should be stopped, and the new T57 was one of the first luxury cars planned with standardized bodies, supplied by the factory instead of independent coachbuilders. With a total of nearly 800 cars (of 8,000 Bugattis), the T57 was the most successful car of that brand, although its technique was not really up-to-date and production was costly, despite the standard bodies. The end was tragic: Jean died when testing a T57 on the street, and only two weeks later WWII began and the "old world" ended... In my collection I meanwhile have almost twenty T57 of different makes, and for starting my "French" era I will pay tribute to the genius of Jean Bugatti and build a Stelvio and a Ventoux of the first series, started 1934. Let's see the recent condition of the models:

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This Ventoux was "self-built" by an unknown modeller, painting only made with a brush. It's not absolutely sure which original car WM had in mind, at least the front bumper is not original, but a later addition (and will be replaced, of course), and the "filet" or "egg-shape" on the doors is too big. There are three or four cars showing this detail, but it's evident that for those cars no vintage photos are available. I suppose that this a weird interpretation of the design made by Jean Bugatti.

Let's look at the Stelvio:

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Sorry, Mr Waters, whereever you may be, I appreciate your work very much, but it won't save this model from being built-up entirely new. You meanwhile know the program, the models will be disassembled, and almost everything except the body parts will be replaced... :) - To be continued...

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DeadCanDanceR
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by DeadCanDanceR » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:26 pm

OMG!!! :o

This thread is going to get very interesting!
-Julio-

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stewil
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by stewil » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:42 am

Hi Jean,
Exciting cars those T57's of your namesake. Happy you are improving some of them. :D
Couldn't help but post some pics of one of my favorites by Illario.
Personally less satisfying than your beautiful creations but I don't have the skill or talent to turn white metal into gold like you do, so I had to spend a bit of mine to obtain this one.


She sure is pretty in blue and white.
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Cheers and Happy Collecting,
Steve

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Tom
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Tom » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:02 am

Interesting projects, beautiful cars. Looking forward to what you will make of this.

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Jean B.
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Jean B. » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:48 pm

DeadCanDanceR wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:26 pm
OMG!!! :o This thread is going to get very interesting!
At least I hope so, I'm always afraid to bore you with all the repeating steps... :)
stewil wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:42 am
Hi Jean, Exciting cars those T57's of your namesake. Happy you are improving some of them. :D Couldn't help but post some pics of one of my favorites by Illario. Personally less satisfying than your beautiful creations but I don't have the skill or talent to turn white metal into gold like you do, so I had to spend a bit of mine to obtain this one.
"I'm just a poor boy from a poor family..." :D - I simply have to build the cars by myself as I cannot afford those dream models made by Ilario & Co... :) I always admire those beautifully made models, especially as there are so many more rare and extravagant types in resin, compared to white-metal. But thanks for the flowers and welcome to another turn of "gold-making" ;)
Tom wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:02 am
Interesting projects, beautiful cars. Looking forward to what you will make of this.
Welcome aboard! I spent almost my complete holidays to make up my mind which original cars should be chosen for building the models... :) Let's see what it's going to become...

Having not really re-started my workshop, at least some pics of the current state. Models are already disassembled and stripped-off:

ImageThe lower part is the same for both. The shape of the trunk lid is only correct for the Stelvio, not for the Ventoux.

ImageThe filigrane parts of the chassis were already broken off before starting the project...

ImageI spent a lot of time making the tire master, as I want to use this master for all 19 T57 I have, for the disc wheels as well as for the wire wheels, for black and white-wall tires. Furthermore the T57 had different tire makes with different profile threads, so I first copy the master several times, then making different profiles, and then copy those for the final models.

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Jean B.
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Jean B. » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:03 pm

During my holidays I prepared some p/e parts, and so it was quickly made today:

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The profile threads for the tires prepared for making a silicone mould:

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Tom
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Tom » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:26 pm

PE and wheels are looking good already. I'm looking forward to your choices of colours...

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Jean B.
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Jean B. » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:33 pm

Tom wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:26 pm
PE and wheels are looking good already. I'm looking forward to your choices of colours...
During my holidays I checked almost all 750 T57 regarding authentic colours resp. showing original cars. It's really not easy to find out which original cars Western Models took for modelling... :roll: Currently I think about black/yellow for the Ventoux, referring to the first factory demonstrator of this type, and for the Stelvio black/dark red with white-walls, referring to a show car of 1935. But I'm not absolutely sure yet...

A very first glimpse on the wheels, just for showing the proportions of hubcap and tire:

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The spats for the rear wheels, the "arrow" made with 2K-adhesive:

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The front bumper:

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One of the most difficult works for this car is to make a really nice radiator. All models of this car have different radiators (even the ones by WM), and none of these is made exactly to the original. My idea is to make one good radiator, fitting to all different model cars, so that in twenty-three years I can show the whole dozen with the same radiators... :) It's quite weird how I want to do this, but let's see if it works. First I designed all necessary parts for p/e:

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Then glued these together as a kind of "sandwich" and filled in the gap with putty:

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Most important are the "shoulders" of the outside line, they are often missed at many T57 models. Those shoulder line comes to "zero" at the front end, that's quite tricky:

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Having the massive radiator with a separate mask (which can be painted, for example):

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This radiator is to be casted in white-metal, I hope to be able to present the first example tomorrow...

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Tom
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Tom » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:43 pm

Your usual work of art. Very clever construction.

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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by oldirish33 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:56 pm

Fantastic subjects and collection focus. There are some marvelous cars already in your collection, I am anxious to see what else you add!
Jerry
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Jean B.
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Jean B. » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:35 pm

Tom wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:43 pm
Your usual work of art. Very clever construction.
But difficult... :roll:
oldirish33 wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:56 pm
Fantastic subjects and collection focus. There are some marvelous cars already in your collection, I am anxious to see what else you add!
Well, I guess there are one or two rarities still to come... ;)

Making the radiator grille master was quite fuzzy, but casting in white-metal failed :cry: The surrounding edge measures 0.6 x 0.6mm, and that's too thin/too deep to cast with white-metal, at least without centrifugue:

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Furthermore the metal shrinks compared to the master, and therefore the grille is too small. Well, after having cried the last 36 hours, I meanwhile have some new ideas how to do this, but this will take some time...

The profile threads are glued around the tire masters:

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The front springs of the chassis are broken off, I have to recreate them with solder:

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voilà:

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Tom
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Tom » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:03 pm

I always marvel at your creativity with solder. Me, I struggle to join two wires together properly without requiring admission to the burns ward... :D

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reeft1
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by reeft1 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:51 am

Patience and skill are two virtues you have in abundance which have passed me by. I salute you.

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Jager
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Jager » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:36 am

Such a shame the grill casting didn't work Jean. Have you thought about trying the same method using different metal/alloy....maybe something with less lead so its harder ?
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” - Steve McQueen

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gilma
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by gilma » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:50 am

Wonderful subjects, some of the most interesting for me. Hope you manage to solve the radiator problems.

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Paulius43
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Paulius43 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:33 am

Super interesting "blog" about the process.

I am not sure why you wanted to cast the radiator in white metal? Wouldn't it be easier to cast in resin and finish with P/E?..
"A picture is worth a thousand words, but a model is worth a thousand pictures." Harley J. Earl
My concept car 1:43 collection: viewtopic.php?t=1096

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stewil
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by stewil » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:28 pm

Jean,
As always - wonderfully creative.
at least without centrifugue:
Do I see a centrifuge in your future??? :lol:
Looking forward to more progress shots.
Cheers and Happy Collecting,
Steve

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Jean B.
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Jean B. » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:24 pm

Tom wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:03 pm
I always marvel at your creativity with solder. Me, I struggle to join two wires together properly without requiring admission to the burns ward... :D
Funny, I think that being "creative" with solder is much easier than to join wires or anything else :lol: I guess I wouldn't make this, too...
reeft1 wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:51 am
Patience and skill are two virtues you have in abundance which have passed me by. I salute you.
Perhaps it's due to the pills they force me to take... :mrgreen:
Jager wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:36 am
Such a shame the grill casting didn't work Jean. Have you thought about trying the same method using different metal/alloy....maybe something with less lead so its harder ?
Yes, I have. You usually add wismut to the white-metal for improving the "flow", but it doesn't help. Liquid white-metal has a very high cohesion, similar to quicksilver, it doesn't flow like water, and that only works with more massive shapes.
gilma wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:50 am
Wonderful subjects, some of the most interesting for me. Hope you manage to solve the radiator problems.
Well, I hope so! I started with the most difficult way to do this, after a night in the soft-cell I've got one or two new ideas to make the grill :)
Paulius43 wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:33 am
Super interesting "blog" about the process. I am not sure why you wanted to cast the radiator in white metal? Wouldn't it be easier to cast in resin and finish with P/E?..
You know, metal is a kind of fetish for me :oops: At least I always try to build anything in metal, whenever possible. Of course this part wouldn't make any problems casting it in resin, but that's "plan D" - first I will try something different - with metal :)
stewil wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:28 pm
Jean, As always - wonderfully creative.
at least without centrifugue:
Do I see a centrifuge in your future??? :lol: Looking forward to more progress shots.
Well, perhaps if I get rid of either the sofa or the kitchen :lol: No, I won't invest in a centrifugue - there's a big "STOP" sign at a certain point ;) I already plan a new master and I'm sure I will make it anyhow within the next two weeks, stay tuned!

The crankshaft looks a little twisted...

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...and the photo of "after" has disappeared... :D

Exhaust pipes drilled out:

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Don't let children play with surgeon knives:

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:evil:

The strips on the running boards are too rough and not casted properly:

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...and off...

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Preparing the chassis for mounting the wheels:

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And making a first test if the body sits properly on the chassis and all four wheels touch the ground:

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Jager
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Jager » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:27 am

I'm sure there is much more work involved than your pictures portray Jean. Well done.
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” - Steve McQueen

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Tom
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Tom » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:09 am

The way your models sit on the wheels is a large contribution to their appearance and I know from experience that it's hard to achieve perfection. Your results always look close to perfection.

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Jean B.
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Jean B. » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:27 pm

Jager wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:27 am
I'm sure there is much more work involved than your pictures portray Jean. Well done.
Thanks :) - indeed, it is... I could make videos, simply filming all day long my workbench, but youtube would block them due to heavy cursing all the time... :D
Tom wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:09 am
The way your models sit on the wheels is a large contribution to their appearance and I know from experience that it's hard to achieve perfection. Your results always look close to perfection.
Thank you :P ! This time it's not so difficult - don't know why, but this model sits very good without doing very much :o But I agree, usually you're busy a whole day until the last wheel touches the ground... :)

Casting of this Western Model is rather poor! The model-maker obviously rubbed some putty with his thumb over the surface, and you can indeed see those traces on these models... :roll: Making-up the lower body parts, first the one behind:

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...and the second one:

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A horizontal rod was soldered to the front end of the chassis.

The hole for the right-hand-side rear light was filled, as the T57 got as a standard only rear lights on the left-hand side. The other one was mostly added later to get conform with official regulations.

Image

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Tom
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Tom » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:25 pm

It must've taken a lot of time and effort to get the two chassis to look so smooth.

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Jean B.
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Jean B. » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:53 am

Tom wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:25 pm
It must've taken a lot of time and effort to get the two chassis to look so smooth.
Boy, you can bet... And the lower body part is the easier one, the really hard work follows with the upper halves... :roll:

I'd like to give an advice: Never force two models into one box over night...

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...for you don't know what you'll get later:

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:lol:

So I guess I have to start again and make a trio rather than a duo :P

The louvres will be removed, as the number is wrong (16 on the Stelvio, 20 on the Ventoux) and the width of each differs:

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The former owner must've had difficulties to get the model screwed together, as it seems... :?

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New screw cylinders, and additional walls left/right of the trunk (to avoid gaps between the two body halves):

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Tom
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Re: Bugatti Stelvio + Ventoux by Western Models

Post by Tom » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:09 am

With every build you have to raise the bar, eh? :lol:

The third one's pretty bad, those louvres look awful. Looking forward to your version 2.0.

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