Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Featherless_Biped
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by Featherless_Biped »

Tom wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:48 pm
you only have to look at them to be reminded of the bravery (or idiocy) of going racing in those contraptions, basically an engine and a seat strapped to a couple of steel girders, running on bicycle wheels.
Don't forget the dust, inferior tires, and many more missing features. :roll:
GBOAC002 wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:17 am
The Drivers and their co-drivers do look very vulnerable perched high up and with no seatbelts, if the worst should happen.
They do and it did. :(



A lot could be said about the engineering, manufacture, and marketing of the Ford Model T, but not so much about the styling. They were not remarkable automobiles, but public response to the less expensive ones (the firm made some fairly costly cars at first) indicated the soundness of Ford’s idea—to turn the automobile from a luxury and a plaything into a necessity by making it cheap, versatile, and easy to maintain. Henry Ford produced eight versions of cars before the Model T. These were the models A, B, C, F, K, N, R, and S. The first vehicles were available in green, red, blue and grey. Black was not available at all. I don’t believe I’ve seen 1:43 models of any of them.

In some ways, the 1914 T lagged behind other marques of that time; its cowl lacked fairing, the fenders were flat in cross section and did not curve over the front wheels. However, it had no controls or horn outside the door, fenders were attached to the body, and it had all bench seats. It was also longer and lower than most cars built four years earlier. Prior to the production of the Model T, the location of the steering wheel was as varied as the cars of the era. The Model T Ford set the standard for the steering wheel location at left hand drive.

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Doors for the front and back seats allowed for two important style trends: an unbroken line from the bottom of the windshield to the rear of the car and continuous panels around the sides of the car which enveloped the passenger area, creating a more unified space and giving the car it a more streamlined look. Significantly, the engine and hood were not included. They were still in a box separated by a vertical dash with no attempt at visually integrating them into the whole.

Like this model, about 95 percent of cars produced then were open with canopy tops, mostly in this five- or seven-passenger touring style. Model Ts were available in several styles; Touring, Runabout, Town Car, Landaulet, Coupe and Tourabout. By 1916, 55 percent of the cars in the world were Model Ts.

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Ford Model T. 1914. Minichamps 100 Years of Ford.



Although the touring style was popular in 1914, there was still a market for roadsters. Fiat produced the Zero in several styles including this roadster. The origin of the name "Zero" comes from the need to create a smaller and cheaper car unlike earlier Fiat models designated from 1 to 6.

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Unlike the contemporary Ford Model T, the Zero shows the visual integration of the hood/engine with the passenger compartment. The fairing at the cowl eliminates the division. The Zero also has a slanted windshield. Both of these features are relatively new style trends that persisted. Like most cars at the time, headlights were freestanding appendages and the running boards carried a toolbox and a gas canister. There is a small trunk in the rear, so the spare tire was carried on the side of the car, another feature that persisted until the mid-1930s.

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Battista Pininfarina was an entrepreneur but not yet just solely a designer when he ordered a drawing of the radiator of the car. His design was chosen over the designs by the technicians of Fiat itself.

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Fiat Zero. 1914. Rio.



The first drive-in service station opened in 1913. American motorists had been able to pump their own gasoline at filling stations since 1905, but those were little more than a pump at the curbside. Before that, motorists bought gasoline in cans from places like pharmacies and blacksmith shops and filled up themselves.

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By 1918, the first visible pumps were introduced, some standing upwards of ten feet tall. The customer was able to see just how much fuel he was purchasing by viewing a large glass cylinder that was above the pump, the number of gallons indicated by numbers on the side of the cylinder. The gas was manually pumped up to the cylinder, Then, through a release valve, the gas was gravity-fed through the hose to the vehicle.

Beyond being a measurement device, these pumps demonstrated the clarity of the gasoline. At the time, customers became increasingly aware that pollutants in gasoline would harm their engine. Another function was to allow the customer to quickly see which pump was ready to fill a gas tank, based on which cylinders were full. Due to a lack of street lights at night, globes not only helped advertise the gasoline’s manufacturer, but also served as a beacon for travelers in desperate need of refueling. Around 1925, the visible cylinder was being replaced by the clock-style meter.

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Wayne Cut 519 Sinclair Gas Pump. 1919. City.

RT

Tom
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by Tom »

I will start looking for the MC Ford T. A very nice model and a very significant car. Besides, I already have the T speedster so this will make a nice comparison.

Fiat Zero is an attractive car too, looking at Rio's colour scheme makes me wonder if it's realistic and what other colours were popular. Those fuel pumps look great, I really enjoyed looking at those at the Louwman.

Alfaholic
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by Alfaholic »

Very much enjoyed these last two. The "T" is probably the iconic automobile and the Fiat is showing a typical jaunty Italian flair (assuming it is a real livery). The Fiat does look much more modern though, but to be expected as it had a different role to play.
Martin

Featherless_Biped
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by Featherless_Biped »

Tom wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:08 pm
Rio's colour scheme makes me wonder if it's realistic and what other colours were popular.
Alfaholic wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:54 pm
the Fiat is showing a typical jaunty Italian flair (assuming it is a real livery).
The Fiat Zeros did come in colors (red, blue), so green may be authentic. However, I suspect the blue fenders. Fenders at that time were generally black.
Tom wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:08 pm
Those fuel pumps look great, I really enjoyed looking at those at the Louwman.
It's surprising, given their size and inoperability, how many people collect old pumps. :?


Produced from June 1919 to December 1921 in Paris, France. this was the first car made by Citroën. It’s in the popular open touring style with a folding roof. Although there does not appear to be anything unusual about this car, it serves as an illustration for changing design.

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By this time, the “streamline type” was the definitive form, with a smooth taper from the body to the hood, showing no flat dash at all. Contributing to the streamlined look is the elimination of the carriage/dash lights and door handles. The trend is also illustrated by fenders positioned close to the body, for a more integrated look. The horn and all controls are, by this time of course, all inside the vehicle. Wire wheels were popular but expensive and difficult to clean. Steel wheels were an option and had been used on performance cars such as the Marmon Wasp and Blitzen Benz. The Type A came with five steel wheels fitted with Michelin tires. The lights are electric so there is no gas canister on the running board. While Henry Ford was producing all black cars, most of the Type A Torpedos were white with black running boards/fenders and wheels. This nicely detailed and accurate model shows advanced features – windshield wipers and rear view mirrors. The radiator/grille and headlights are nickel-plated rather than brass signaling the end of the Brass Era.

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Citroen Type A Torpedo. 1919. Universal Hobbies.

The end of WWI marked the rise of the closed car, replacing the popularity of the open tonneau style. But by that time, the basic form of the car had been established. Standards and expectations were set on something similar to the Type A, be they roadsters, limousines, or touring cars, open or closed tops. Unlike the extreme variations of the Veteran and Brass Eras, cars now had a remarkably similar look which lasted until the early 1930s. Compare the Citroën Type A of 1919 with the much later 1930 Austin Heavy Twelve, 1932 Mercedes-Benz 770, or the 1930 Packard 733. They differ in size, but they are similar in shape.

Image 1930 Austin Heavy Twelve.

Image 1932 Merceedes-Benz 770.

Image 1930 Packard 733.

Of course, there were modifications in the ’20s (such as hood ornaments, rumble seats, side windows, and decorative patterns made with paint and louvers), but most of them didn’t alter the basic form. It was over a decade before new directions in design began.

Image 1933.

Image 1934.

Image 1933.

Image 1936.

Image 1936.

In the early ’30s, real changes in form began to appear. Radical new looks arrived with new ideas about streamlining, making the 1930s one of the most interesting eras of design development.

RT

Tom
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by Tom »

When design and early streamlining attempts started, that's when cars really grabbed me. I can look at the last couple for hours on end... though you've made me look at the early cars in a different way. I've started appreciating them more recently.

That particular grey Mercedes 770 is significant to me because it represents the car of the exiled German Emperor Wilhelm II who spent his final years in neutral Holland, living in a mansion in Doorn. I lived no more than 100 m from his place for 13 years... actually, I should buy the model for that reason.

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JSB33
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by JSB33 »

The Stout has always been a favorite of mine.
Jeff
Image

GBOAC002
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by GBOAC002 »

I saw my very first 1:1 Scarab at the Hampton Court Concours last year. The car was fascinating and certainly wowed other spectators as well. Nice model but too early for my collecting period.

BertOne
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by BertOne »

Saloon/sedan cars of the 30's and 40's were pretty boring. Whether they were Austins, Buicks, Fiats, Mercedes or Peugeots they all looked pretty much the same; 2 boxes with a wheel on each corner. Of course, the high-end coachbuilt cars of the time exhibited some extraordinary art-deco and streamlined designs and various Alfas, Delahayes, Duesenbergs, Hispano Suizas and Rollers are among the favourites in my collection.

Featherless_Biped
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by Featherless_Biped »

Finally, a decent model of an early electric car. :)

In the early 1900's the electric car was a common site on the American road. Electric cars were used in a large part by women and doctors. Doctors needed a car that they could get in and go, and gasoline engines were not that easy to start or reliable. In fact one of the downfalls of early electric cars is that they were thought of as women's cars, and men did not want to be seen driving them. In fact, Henry Ford’s wife Clara refused to drive gasoline cars or "explosion cars" as they were called (mostly by electric car salesman). Henry bought Clara a new Detroit Brougham every two years from 1908 to 1914.

Thomas Edison (of the Thomas Edison Battery Co.) and Henry Ford decided to work together to make the electric car the main transportation in U.S. Their goal was to have charging stations where people could "fill up" their cars. In 1914 Edsel Ford was given the task of looking into electric car production. He had two prototypes made with guidance from Edison, but the concept was not developed.

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Thomas Edison posing with the Detroit Electric.

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Electric cars were expensive to build, so the Detroit Electric was positioned as a luxury car. The cabin cabin was outfitted like an Edwardian sitting room, complete with plush carpet, drapes, flower vases, and a well-stuffed love seat along the back wall. There's a bucket seat up front which swivels toward the back seat for socializing, and a small padded stool for a fourth occupant. There are large windows—with curved glass in the corners, a novelty at the time.

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Two levers fold down from the door pillar. One is the accelerator, which has a neutral position and four power notches, and the other is the steering tiller. Push the tiller out to turn left, pull to turn right.

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Compare this to the contemporary Ford Model T with its simple seats upholstered in a cloth-based imitation leather. The wooden floor was covered with a rubber mat—probably waterproof, since the Model T has a folding top but no side windows. There was also no driver's door.

Detroit Electric's base price was $2,985 ($38,500) topping out closer to $4,000 with options (e.g., battery upgrade)—nearly $61,500 in today's dollars. In 1914, you could buy two new model T's for $600.

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The Detroit Electric was rated at 80 miles per charge with the record of over 211 miles on one charge. They were usually driven at about 12 MPH. Batteries are located in the boxes fore and aft of the cabin.

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Simplicity.

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"Charging station"

A major issue at the time wasn't merely a lack of chargers, but rather a lack of electricity. Most big cities were wired up, but for much of America rural electrification was still far in the future. The Detroit Electric company filed for bankruptcy after the stock market crash in 1929.

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Detroit Electric. 1915. CMF.

RT

Tom
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by Tom »

Not only a great model but also an interesting back story. If you're too far ahead of your time you usually end up paying the price. There is a tipping point there somewhere where sales of electric vehicles are held back by lack of charging facilities and otherwise increased sales of electric vehicles prompt the installation of new charging facilities.
Even in these days, investing in charger infrastructure is still a big part of selling electric cars- look at all the Supercharger stations Tesla is getting built everywhere.

IFHP
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by IFHP »

RT,

This is a fantastic thread that some how escaped my notice until now. I really appreciate the details you provide about these early vehicles.

From my perspective (of course) I find the shortage of early Ford models frustrating. Apparently there is a whole series of pre-T Ford models in 1:32 but that doesn't help me. I've been assuming for quite awhile that it is just a mater of time before someone issues a 1903 Model A.

This weekend I'll line up my small group of pre-1919 Ford models, but for the time I'll see what I have on hand.

ImageHoliday Village 2018 by Michael, on Flickr

Circa 1912 Model T Touring car by Whitebox.

ImageHoliday Village 2018 by Michael, on Flickr

Basically the same model from IXO

ImageTwelve Decades of Ford by Michael, on Flickr

1914 Model T by Minichamps

Image1909 Model T at Boreham by Michael, on Flickr

1909 Model T by IXO

ImageScene from "Tin Lizzy" by Michael, on Flickr

The Whitebox Model T again.

ImageEarly Model Ts by IXO and Whitebox by Michael, on Flickr

Made from the same casting, but with some different details. The red car is a 1909 model while, the black one would be more like circa 1912 as black wasn't offered on the early Model Ts. The biggest difference on the two model appears to be the taillight. I note the the red car has New York plates, I don't know what the plates on the black car are, but they look European.

ImageEarly Model Ts by IXO and Whitebox by Michael, on Flickr

Wheel alignment seems to be a common problem with these IXO based Model Ts.

ImageHenry Ford Figurine by BM Toys by Michael, on Flickr

1915 Model T van by Corgi. It seems a little over-sized and I don't like the bronze looking wheels. On a modern model they would be painted a contrasting color (or black).

ImageFord Racing History -- Track Cars by Michael, on Flickr

Ford 999 by Rio. Brumm also make a model of this. I'd love to see a comparison of the two.
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ImageHighway Scene by Michael, on Flickr

IFHP
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by IFHP »

Featherless_Biped wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:45 pm


Image
Congratulations on the aligned headlights on your Minichamps Model T. I have two of these and they both have cock-eyed headlights.
Collector of 1:43 Scale Fords

ImageHighway Scene by Michael, on Flickr

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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by Featherless_Biped »

IFHP wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:38 am
I don't like the bronze looking wheels.
Granted, Matchbox models aren't the most accurate, but the brass wheels and other parts are, I suppose, a flagrant attempt to make the models more saleable. For example:

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This Maxwell had brass-painted wheels which were conspicuous and shamelessly incorrect. :roll: So I painted them to match the rest of the car. It was still too "brassy" so I painted the gas tank. And the gaudy windshield frame, which should be a thin brass frame, is too thick and should not be divided vertically. Also applied some dull-cote to the brass parts. Still not a great model, but I feel better now. :lol:

Image

RT
Last edited by Featherless_Biped on Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

IFHP
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by IFHP »

Yes, exactly.
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by oldirish33 »

Nice to see the brass era Model T's. I have a Brumm Ford 999 model I will send you if I can find it.
Jerry
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IFHP
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by IFHP »

oldirish33 wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:42 pm
Nice to see the brass era Model T's. I have a Brumm Ford 999 model I will send you if I can find it.
Wow, thanks! It would be interesting to compare with the Rio. I've wondered if the Rio is over sized, but at this point I just don't know.
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IFHP
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by IFHP »

Last night I finally lined up my pre-1920 Ford models.

ImagePre-1920 Fords by Michael, on Flickr

The Dongguan roadster seems just a tad larger and taller than the other Model T models. In real life I would expect the roadster to be more low-slung than the standard Model Ts.

ImagePre-1920 Fords by Michael, on Flickr

ImagePre-1920 Fords by Michael, on Flickr

Ford 999 by Rio (seems really big doesn't it?), two Model Ts by IXO, two from WhiteBox and one each from Minichamps and Dongguan. I've determined that the youngest of these models could be from any year between 1917 and 1925 and the blue color means it was built outside of the US.
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by oldirish33 »

Model T, a car I've always wanted to drive. Hard to realize those cars are now over 100 years old! :o. Nice selection and I haven't forgot about the 999.
Jerry
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by IFHP »

oldirish33 wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:05 am
Model T, a car I've always wanted to drive. Hard to realize those cars are now over 100 years old! :o. Nice selection and I haven't forgot about the 999.
In non-COVID years the LeMay Family Collection in Parkland, WA has an annual fundraiser where they will tech people how to drive a Model T. I considered it once, but it was really expensive.
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JSB33
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by JSB33 »

oldirish33 wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:05 am
Model T, a car I've always wanted to drive. Hard to realize those cars are now over 100 years old!
2 of the many "bucket list" cars (and somewhat attainable) I would like to drive are a Model T and a VW Beetle.
Jeff
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Tom
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by Tom »

Did one of the two, would love the other.

Featherless_Biped
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by Featherless_Biped »

Image

The Spyker 60HP is a one-off race car commissioned by Jaobus Spijker of Amsterdam for the famous Paris to Madrid race of 1903. Unfortunately, the car was not ready in time for the race. Although it was entered in hill climb events, the car actually competed in few races. The car had an advantage in hill climbs due to increased traction provided by its innovative four-wheel drive system. But the four-wheel drive made cornering difficult, slowing the car significantly. See the car in action on the road and why cornering was a problem in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjczglh5T9k

It was warehoused by Spyker until 1925 and then auctioned off. After restoration, the Spyker 60HP received top honors in 2003 at the Pebble Beach Concourse.

Image
Matrix Louwman Collection

RT

arnold_C43
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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by arnold_C43 »

RT, what a super model your Spyker 60HP is. Well presented in photographs, too. Was unaware of its participation in the Paris-Madrid. But I am a hill climb fan, so was excited to read it had a competition history there. The antique era of the auto I have only recently discovered and am fascinated with now.

A Spyker, model unknown to me, also participated in the Peking-Paris race of 1907. A read by Barzini I am currently immersed in. If in your research you have model info on that, that would be interesting as well.

Cheers. arnold

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Re: Antique Cars – Veteran Era & Brass Era, WWI and Earlier

Post by David H »

Being new to Scale 143, I am now having the pleasure of reading these earliers posts. This "Antique Cars" series is fascinating, with fine photos and good writing. Well done, Featherless_Biped! Like you, my RAMI cars are about my only Horseless Carriages that are close to 1:43 in scale. I do have a few Revell Highway Pioneers (made in England by Gowland) back in the 1950s. These tend to be closer to 1:32. At this time, they are packed away and I can't get to them.

Here are a couple from my shelves that I could reach:
IMG_7363.JPG
IMG_7369.JPG
I believe both of these are several years old. I thank you all on this site for re-awakening my interests. David H
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