Overspraying decals...

For special skills and tip to make collecting better
Post Reply
User avatar
Maximus
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:14 am

Overspraying decals...

Post by Maximus » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:25 am

Gday all.

As most of you know most Spark F1 cars come with a super secret set of dastardly tobacco decals tucked under the base for those evil buggers amongst us that like our F1 cars to look like the real thing. I now have quite a few of these cars and would like to start adding the ciggie ads to them. However, never having done this before I was wondering if the S143 community could give me some advice on how best to do this. Of most importance is:

1. Should the freshly applied decals be clear coated?
2. If so would that require coating the entire bodywork? Or can I , as suggested elsewhere, just brush clear coat over the new decal?
3. And what is the preferred clear cote for the members here?

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated as these cars are way to expensive for me to go buggering them up.
Thanks in advance.

User avatar
David MG
Posts: 16509
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:27 am
Location: Babell, North Wales

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by David MG » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:49 am

Not bein a racer but an observer, I would just leave the decals as they are. I used to be involved via Texaco with McLaren an the decals applied were of different “shinieness”.
Cheers,
David
Image

User avatar
Maximus
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:14 am

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by Maximus » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:00 am

David MG wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:49 am
Not bein a racer but an observer, I would just leave the decals as they are. I used to be involved via Texaco with McLaren an the decals applied were of different “shinieness”.
Hmmm...but dont the new decals need to be "protected"?

User avatar
scalainj
Site Admin
Posts: 29500
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:01 am
Location: Kent & East Sussex

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by scalainj » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:25 am

I don't coat mine at all and they have stood up fine so far.
I understand clear coating on model kit decals is the norm and yes it needs doing but with these i'm not sure

I think if you are going to coat them then coat just the decal
Andy

British roads have history. Some were built by the Romans. British road investment being what it is, they have only been re-surfaced a few times since.

User avatar
Jager
Posts: 13100
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:29 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by Jager » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:02 am

My experience so far with 20 year old Minichamps decals is that ones applied to painted surfaces are fine and have no problems. However, the ones that were (factory) applied to plastic parts like wings, spoilers, mirrors etc invariably lift. Some of the worst are the decals applied to the unpainted rear wings of my Minichamps Le Mans BMW LMR's - I actually decided to peel them off my '99 Le Mans winner because it looked so bad.
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” - Steve McQueen

User avatar
Tom
Posts: 23629
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:29 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by Tom » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:05 am

There are decal softeners and fixatives for sale in hobby stores that might help.

User avatar
Serafa
Posts: 3632
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:00 pm
Location: Big blue football called Earth

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by Serafa » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:50 am

You don't really need to do anything, besides having a picture of the real car in front of you and a small cup of water to release the decals from the decal sheet. I would search for videos on YouTube first to study the technique if I were you.

The coat will protect your decals from lifting in the future, but this is restricted to only some bad quality decals. Unfortunately I have seen many Minichamps with this issue as Ian mentioned, even when the decals came with the original model.

I think you just need to really be careful with light. It can get your decals suffer from discoloration.
Follow me on Instagram @brimportcollection

User avatar
Maximus
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:14 am

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by Maximus » Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:52 pm

Thanks everybody. I know the horror of the decals lifting from unpainted surfaces as i have a lot of late 80s/ early 90s Onyx models. It tends to be a real problem on those. I do have a couple of Spark and Minichamps cars that have the ciggie decals already applied and i thought they looked like they had not been coated but wasnt sure.
Tom wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:05 am
There are decal softeners and fixatives for sale in hobby stores that might help.
Tom. Any suggestions on which decal softeners and fixatives would be best for Spark decals?

User avatar
Tom
Posts: 23629
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:29 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by Tom » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:29 pm

Sorry, no experience there. Every Spark that I have came fully decked out.

User avatar
David MG
Posts: 16509
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:27 am
Location: Babell, North Wales

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by David MG » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:47 am

Maximus wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:52 pm
Any suggestions on which decal softeners and fixatives would be best for Spark decals?
Microscale Microset & Walthers Solvaset
Cheers,
David
Image

User avatar
Jager
Posts: 13100
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:29 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by Jager » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:23 am

David MG wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:47 am
Microscale Microset.....
I've used the same with good results as well. Easily obtainable in most good hobby stores.

Image
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” - Steve McQueen

User avatar
Maximus
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:14 am

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by Maximus » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:22 am

Thanks everyone. I reckon this is a good starting point....now lets see how many ways i can bugger it up before i get it right....lol

User avatar
Jager
Posts: 13100
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:29 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by Jager » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:02 am

If you lack experience, one tip is to practice applying decals with a cheap 1/43 Heller F1 kit.

Image
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” - Steve McQueen

User avatar
raystaggs
Posts: 417
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by raystaggs » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:13 pm

Jager wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:02 am
If you lack experience, one tip is to practice applying decals with a cheap 1/43 Heller F1 kit.
Nice idea - I'll be doing that before going for the real thing... 8-)
Image

User avatar
Maximus
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:14 am

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by Maximus » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:24 am

Jager wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:02 am
If you lack experience, one tip is to practice applying decals with a cheap 1/43 Heller F1 kit.
Yep I have a few cheap diecasts that I will be experimenting with first :lol:

Im not without modelling experience but most of that involved dirty rusty old military stuff....shiny and neat is the difficult bit.

User avatar
reeft1
Posts: 4066
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by reeft1 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:05 am

Micro Sol/Micro Set are fine. I wouldn't use them unless you have panel gaps or you are bending round corners in which case these help the decal snuggle down in to the gaps .

For a painted on look there is a more powerful softener called solvaset but use sparingly as it can cause the decals to warp before they settle down - very disconcerting at first!

I wouldn't bother clear coating.

Alex_W
Posts: 289
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:15 pm
Contact:

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by Alex_W » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:20 pm

I'm a bit late to this topic, but decals and graphics are something have a lot of experience with and I typically get good results. So, for what it's worth, here is my 2 cents.

Use distilled water unless you know for sure that your tap water has no iron residue or contaminates. I speak from experience. Decals that look clean can develop a brown residue if the water has contaminates. If it happens you may be able to wash some of it away with Microset or alcohol later on, but why risk it?

Use warm water. It helps to soften the decals. One of those tea cup warmers is a good tool if you are doing a lot of decals.

Chemicals are a last resort unless the surface is very irregular. I keep Microset and Solvaset on hand, but I only use them when I have a situation that calls for it. Microset is a vinegar based setting solution. It is designed to be used on the surface of the model prior to setting the decal. I use it when the painted surface is semi-gloss or if I need to work delicate decals over curved surfaces. Solvaset is alcohol based and is much stronger. I only use it as a last resort because once it is applied it make it impossible to remove and reset the decal. But it will make decals adhere to surfaces that they might not otherwise adhere to. I've used it many time on older models where the decals have lifted, Minichamps in particular. I keep one bottle on hand at full strength and one diluted 50/50 with water. I start with the weakest solution.

Trim closely. Most decals come on a sheet with the film intact across the entire sheet. Some are pre-cut. In either case, trim by hand using sharp scissors or a new blade in your hobby knife. I use a small piece of tempered glass as a cutting surface when using my knife. I probably spend more time prepping and trimming decals than I do on any other part of my conversions.

I typically place decals while they are pretty wet. I use a small piece of paper towel to wick away the excess, then I lay the towel over the decal a lightly press it down. It should still be moveable at this point. once it is in its final position I give it a few minutes to settle and use my fingers and a snip of paper towel and settle it down from the inside out to the edge if need be. This even works on irregular surfaces. Once chemicals are applied you manipulate the decals at your own risk. Solvaset can not only make a decal soft, it can make the underlying paint soft as well. Manipulating a chemically treated decal can damage the painted finish.

Future (Revive It) is your friend. Future Floor Polish, now called Revive It here in the US, Is an acrylic floor coating that has many uses in model making. Not the least of these is that it is the best clear coat that can be applied to models. Hands down, no exceptions. It can be brushed on (it self levels), sprayed through an airbrush (practice first), or even used to dip model bodies and parts. One of its best qualities is that it makes clear parts look thinner and clearer. Military modelers use it on aircraft canopies, I use it on windshields. I use it as an undercoat for decals on matte surfaces. I use it as a topcoat. There are a ton of references and tutorials online. One of the best is here:

http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

As an example, if I were faced with an early Minichamps Indy or F1 model that had decals lifting off of the rear wing side plates, I would use Solvset to soften the decal and snuggle it down to the surface. I'd let it dry overnight and then I'd brush on a light coat of Revive It, just on the end plates.

I hope this is useful.
Last edited by Alex_W on Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
LUW
Posts: 6906
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:39 am
Location: Brazil, cold South

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by LUW » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:53 am

Not useful but VERY useful. Thanks Alex!
The Revive It is a liquid? You just apply it with a brush? And do you need to polish afterward?
:checkered_flag: Luciano :checkered_flag:

Image

You know why Italians speak with their hands? Because they have to work a lot on their engines.

Alex_W
Posts: 289
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:15 pm
Contact:

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by Alex_W » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:51 pm

LUW wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:53 am
Not useful but VERY useful. Thanks Alex!
The Revive It is a liquid? You just apply it with a brush? And do you need to polish afterward?
It is a clear liquid acrylic. It self-levels so it can be applied by brushing or dipping (or by airbrush) and it won't need polishing, although it can be polished if you are trying for a certain effect.

I dip small clear parts. If there is a drop of extra running off a corner I touch the corner to a paper towel to wick it off. When I brush it on I use a soft brush and don't over work it. It can be brushed over an entire model or over a small area. If I get a drip on a corner I wick it off the same way. One nice thing about it is that it can be removed with window cleaner if need be. Another nice thing is that it is very inexpensive and one bottle will last for years even if you do a lot of models.

When mixed with Simple Green and sprayed it will produce a "wet look" shine (read the article linked above for more details).

It can also be top-coated with a flat finish.

I find it especially useful for locking down small decals like individual letters. A very light coat applied just over the decals is the way to go.

As with anything, practice makes perfect. Whenever I am trying a new technique or product I practice on plastic spoons (clear and white).

There are lots of excellent tutorials on using Future/Revive It on YouTube. Military modelers and model railroaders swear by it.

User avatar
LUW
Posts: 6906
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:39 am
Location: Brazil, cold South

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by LUW » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:00 pm

Fantastic, thanks again! I'll try to find it here (tough!) or maybe import it.
:checkered_flag: Luciano :checkered_flag:

Image

You know why Italians speak with their hands? Because they have to work a lot on their engines.

User avatar
Serafa
Posts: 3632
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:00 pm
Location: Big blue football called Earth

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by Serafa » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:26 pm

Luc, they used to have it for sale at Colecionáveis here in São Paulo.
Follow me on Instagram @brimportcollection

Alex_W
Posts: 289
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:15 pm
Contact:

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by Alex_W » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:08 pm

One more thing...

Decals won't stick to bare metal. Eventually they will fall off. If you have the need to apply decals to a bare metal surface. apply a coat of Future and then apply the decals. Works like a charm. You can also top coat with Future if you want. You can use the Future/simple Green mix if you need more gloss.

I've also mixed Future with chalk pastels to use for weathering.

OK, that was two more things.

User avatar
LUW
Posts: 6906
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:39 am
Location: Brazil, cold South

Re: Overspraying decals...

Post by LUW » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:33 am

Serafa wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:26 pm
Luc, they used to have it for sale at Colecionáveis here in São Paulo.
Really? Gotta check that. Thanx!
:checkered_flag: Luciano :checkered_flag:

Image

You know why Italians speak with their hands? Because they have to work a lot on their engines.

Post Reply